08/09/2022 - VENICE 2022: The thoughtful and “picturesque” side of jazz is studied by the Danish directorial duo, themselves exploring it like two seasoned musicians

Jørgen Leth (left) and Andreas Koefoed (centre) at Venice

Music for Black Pigeons [+see also:
film review
trailer
interview: Jørgen Leth and Andreas Koe…
film profile], screening out of competition at the 79^th Venice International Film Festival, gathers together an exceptional collective of jazz musicians. Along for the ride are directors Andreas Koefoed and Jørgen Leth, the latter having stayed away from the genre for well over five decades, but now taking a giant step back.

Cineuropa: Despite the fact that Jørgen has the top billing in this co-directed work, let’s start by asking: what is Andreas’s role in this project?
Andreas Koefoed: Good question. I’ve made a number of music documentaries, including a short that I shot for Sune Blicher in 2008, Weightless: A Recording Session with Jakob Bro, which is exactly that, filmed in New York, where Jørgen also happened to be at the time. I knew of Jørgen’s love of jazz and invited him to the session, where he met the musicians, including Lee Konitz, his old hero. Through the years, the idea of a more expansive jazz film has evolved. Jørgen and I followed the musicians, Jakob Bro, Lee Konitz, Bill Frisell and Thomas Morgan, during a tour of Iceland, Greenland and the Faroe Islands, and filmed them. Gradually, we opened things up wider and shot various permutations in different places over the years, and we also visited some of them in their homes. We’ve also done interviews, with Jørgen in charge. It all presents itself like a catalogue, where our editor, Adam Nielsen, has done a skilful job of putting it all together.

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Jørgen, you spent part of the 1960s writing passionate jazz criticism, and in your first film from 1963, Stopforbud, you capture jazz pianist Bud Powell in Copenhagen. Why, since then, has jazz been more or less absent from your films?
Jørgen Leth: Perhaps because I found much of it too, what I call, "hoppity"… It was lacking the poetry I felt I needed and was too far removed from my way of thinking. I preferred piano pieces like the Satie music I use in 66 Scenes from America or modern composers like Herman D Koppel. But this return was very pleasurable, mentally. The aspects of jazz represented here I’m especially partial to: thoughtful, calm, tidal, picturesque… What I don’t like together with my pictures is “jazzy” jazz, and this isn’t “jazzy” jazz. So yes, I haven’t really done anything concretely involving jazz since 1963, until this step – a giant step. It’s interesting, this time span, and the fact that I have finally made a return. I like that a lot.

There’s a Jørgen Leth quote that reads, “I only find the geniuses interesting.” Did you set the bar that high for this film as well?
AK: We certainly have gathered together a collective of special personalities. I’m not sure if they can all be characterised as geniuses, but all of them are exceptional in their respective fields, with highly personal signatures in their playing.

JL: I wholeheartedly agree. Even if there are many I didn’t know of beforehand, because they represent a newer school, these musicians are some of the best and most innovative. That’s crucial for this film. And as that quote reveals, I’m extremely selective. In my interest in sports, which is considerable, I’ve felt the same – it’s the outstanding ones that I’ve focused on. Why spend time on anything less, when there’s greater?

How did the two of you divide the work? Are there any clear lines drawn?
JL: On the whole, I take a bit of a back seat in this film, and my presence is a bit shadowlike. I like that. We have worked with that quite nicely, both me and Andreas.

AK: The lines are not that clear. Our collaboration has created a kind of symbiosis where you can’t see the start or end of things, not unlike two jazz musicians, actually. And I was able to suddenly think of something that would be typically Jørgen Leth-style to shoot. Thomas Morgan doing his morning gymnastics routine made me think of Jørgen’s film The Perfect Human, so I decided to play it a little like that. Jørgen wasn’t physically present, but his spirit certainly was.